SimpleX Chat: private and secure messenger without any user IDs (not even random)
simplex.chat
SimpleX Chat - a private and encrypted messenger without any user IDs (not even random ones)! Make a private connection via link / QR code to send messages and make calls.

SimpleX Chat is an instant messenger that is decentralized and doesn’t depend on any unique identifiers such as phone numbers or usernames. Users of SimpleX Chat can scan a QR code or click an invite link to participate in group conversations.

-privacyguides.org

It’s clearly proving to be the most innovative technology when it comes to decentralized communication, in my opinion.

  • poVoq@slrpnk.net
    759·
    9 months ago

    SimpleX Chat Ltd is a seed stage startup with a lot of user growth in 2022-2023, and a lot of exciting technical and product problems to solve to grow faster.

    Run by a VC funded for-profit company. That really should tell you all you need to know. Sorry, but no thanks.

    • Scolding0513@sh.itjust.works
      317·
      9 months ago

      this is a wrong take for a few reasons, if we’re talking about trust.

      Also, Signal literally was taking money from the CIA for a decade and also is based in the US anyway, and no one hardly said a word 🤣🤣 “Privacy” activists are a joke lmao. Also signal made a crypto coin and took away features like SMS, but of course they get a free pass for that too. Makes you wonder.

      1. SimpleX is fully open source, verifiable, and audited. If there are changes that are bad, the community will talk about them, and at worst it can be forked

      2. SimpleX has made it clear that they dont want you to trust them. It’s decentralised and anyone can run their own relay, and the servers are designed prevent correlation. They also make it very easy to use TOR and multiple circuits. This is contrary to the inferior Signal model where you just have to trust that the centralized Signal org isnt leaking your phone and IP to the feds.

      moving towards a decentralised, open, and trustless world is better for everyone. In this kind of system, I really dont give a damn where they are getting their money from, as long as they arent putting crap in the software, and if they do, we will all know about it. But so far they have shown that they are committed to extreme security and privacy, and they obviously arent trying to appeal to normies, so i doubt they would ever even try to put VC-pushed garbage in.

      If you want a good app, you will need funding from somewhere. Look at apps like Session that arent funded well. They suck. So I’d rather SimpleX be funded by a VC instead of by the feds like Signal, as long as everything stays open, free, trustless, and decentralised

      Time to get downvoted! See you guys at -50 😁

      • poVoq@slrpnk.net
        103·
        9 months ago

        Where did I even mention Signal? Total strawman argument, as I don’t think Signal is a good option either.

        But you go ahead and trust Simplex Chat Ltd. I guess some people only learn from their own mistakes 🤷‍♂️

        • Scolding0513@sh.itjust.works
          61·
          9 months ago

          you completely ignored what i said, as I specifically argued that simplex is made to be used without trust. so dont talk about me trusting people lol.

          Also I agree with you on Signal, was just throwing it out there for others, not necessarily for you.

          • poVoq@slrpnk.net
            314·
            9 months ago

            You walked right into my deliberate rethorical trap 😅

            There is no such thing as trustless computing, and anyone that tries to sell you that is scamming you or drank the same kool-aid.

      • SolarPunker@slrpnk.netOP
        62·
        9 months ago

        Exactly what I thought; if the technology is so decentralized does it make sense to care so much about who finances the project? Like if one instance of lemmy was funded by Microsoft, we could easily use another one and block it, right?

      • uzi@lemmy.ca
        21·
        9 months ago

        I’m in full agreement with you. Not even a little bit of disagreement.

    • FarraigePlaisteach@kbin.social
      14·
      9 months ago

      Upvoted bc VC eventually means enshittifiication. But with xz getting back-doored recently, what is the middle ground that keeps these things sustainable financially and operationally?

      • Kidplayer_666@lemm.ee
        5·
        9 months ago

        Maybe it’ll be governments partially funding it. If Schleswig-Holstein’s attempt is anything to go by, it might be a way

        • FarraigePlaisteach@kbin.social
          31·
          9 months ago

          But do we trust entities that depend on our governments for funding? It could be argued that they’re fundamentally compromised.

          • taladar@sh.itjust.works
            3·
            9 months ago

            As opposed to whom? Are investors in VC startups less compromised or more? What are the incentives in either case? Who do you trust to be competent and/or incompetent enough to compromise it without you noticing it? Who is likely to change a project that was well intentioned first after the fact? In what ways?

          • Kidplayer_666@lemm.ee
            2·
            9 months ago

            You have 4 basic options for funding:

            -you rely on individual donations which doesn’t bring in enough money

            -you force people to pay for it, which makes it less attractive when compared to traditional software, and makes much of the community pissy

            -you rely on corporate money

            -you rely on government money

            None is perfect, but some amount of government funding (let’s say, 10% of what they would pay Microsoft for the equivalent software) might make sense

  • fuckwit_mcbumcrumble@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    283·
    9 months ago

    “Hang on let me write down my QR code”

    Usernames exist for a reason, especially in chat apps. Not having usernames is only going to severely limit your target demographic. And if nobody uses your app does it’s benefits even matter?

      • 56!@lemmy.ml
        6·
        9 months ago

        It can be pretty complicated without a phone. Especially if your computer doesn’t have a webcam.

      • jet@hackertalks.comEnglish
        1·
        9 months ago

        You match with someone on a dating app and want to move to the next step… Sending them a QR code to scan into the app is a huge hurdle.

          • jet@hackertalks.comEnglish
            1·
            9 months ago

            A Messaging app is made for communication. The ideal dream is a messaging app that is both easy to communicate with, and respect privacy. If a messaging app cannot be used for a common messaging use case, like dating. It’s not going to work as a general messaging app

    • Em Adespoton@lemmy.ca
      21·
      9 months ago

      I saw a user’s hash just this week — it was in a ransom note. They required their victims to sign up for the service and text a code to their userhash to kick off sending the attacker cryptocurrency so they’d send a decryption key and not make stolen data public.

      Other than that use case, it hasn’t picked up many users that I’m aware of.

  • IuseArchbtw@feddit.de
    18·
    9 months ago

    I’d definitely use it if my friends were using it. Sadly, I can’t even get them to use signal.

    • fluckx@lemmy.world
      1·
      9 months ago

      Same… Sigh…

      I don’t need people to be hyper-privacy minded. But just a little bit at least. I’m not expecting everybody to self host a matrix server and use element and run self hosted services on their own RPI.

      But just not pick one of the worst ones?

  • krash@lemmy.ml
    162·
    9 months ago

    If I want a simple chat protocol, I use IRC or XMPP. These are battle proven by time. If I want a really secure protocol, I use Signal or Matrix. These are endored by many security experts who their shit when they assess protocols, crypto and solutions.

    SimpleX may be a good alternative for anonymous communication, but there is plenty options out there. Considering how many startups are funded by cheap VC money, and the business model is always “provide something awesome, and once you have enough traction - enshittify it” makes me very weary of investing myself in new solutions no matter how open-source the are.

    I may sound bitter and skeptic, but I’ve seen this pattern has been repeated many times over.

  • lemmyreader@lemmy.mlEnglish
    7·
    9 months ago

    Interesting project, but last time I tried it was battery hungry, and having made quite an effort to get some of my contacts on Signal, I don’t see it happen to get them all on SimpleXChat. And Signal Stickers make Signal more attractive for some.

  • uzi@lemmy.ca
    71·
    9 months ago

    In F-Droid, after disabling all anti-features, SimpleX still is listed. Signal never will be due to connecting to GCM or Firebase. Molly is an improvement for Signal but not for untrackable privacy like SimpleX from using a different ID with each individual SimpleX contact.

    • malean@lemmy.world
      0·
      9 months ago

      I hoped Molly leaved the sms feature, that is the only thing I can use as a bait for let my friends switch to signal.

      • uzi@lemmy.ca
        01·
        9 months ago

        No, because SMS code was removed from Signal, I believe Molly would have to fork the code if they try to put it back in.

  • taladar@sh.itjust.works
    61·
    9 months ago

    Seems like another one of those mobile only messengers, not really interested in those to be honest.

      • taladar@sh.itjust.works
        12·
        9 months ago

        Ah, must have missed that one, though

        Using the same profile as on mobile device is not yet supported – you need to create a separate profile to use desktop apps.

        is a pretty major downside.

          • taladar@sh.itjust.works
            1·
            9 months ago

            But wouldn’t that mean if someone writes to your desktop profile you can’t respond on mobile and vice versa? And you would have to be added by everyone else twice too?

            • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee
              3·
              9 months ago

              Yes.

              You have to switch between devices.

              When this becomes seamless, it’ll be a more competitive app.

              Also, it’s a ram eater on my phone

            • starlord@lemm.eeEnglish
              1·
              9 months ago

              You just never use a desktop profile. You have an account on mobile, and every time you go desktop you sign in with the app and qr code so you’re always using the same db on each machine.

              My desktop app has zero profiles and no db; I only sign in with my mobile.

    • Scolding0513@sh.itjust.works
      1·
      9 months ago

      There is a desktop app but linking is not as easy and featured as Session, which is really easy to use on multiple devices, but then you lose the superior security of SimpleX

  • shrugal@lemm.ee
    3·
    9 months ago

    What does their multi-device story look like? Can I use one identity/account on multiple devices, with synced read state etc?

  • aldalire@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    3·
    9 months ago

    Session messenger allows you to chat without linking a phone number to your account. It’s what drug dealers use lol.

    • EngineerGaming@feddit.nl
      2·
      9 months ago

      What really bothers me about Session is that you effectively cannot selfhost - hosting a node is prohibitively expensive. So seems like the only people who can realistically host a node are crypto bros, big companies and government agencies. Thanks, I would rather stick with IRC/XMPP/Matrix.

  • TCB13@lemmy.worldEnglish
    3·
    9 months ago

    Because when you read their website https://simplex.chat/ and they say stuff like “Possibility of MITM > NO” and “Central component or other network-wide attack > No - resilient” they kind lose their credibility.

    Also, “Other apps have user IDs (…) SimpleX does not, not even random numbers.” > there must be an ID at some point. When you invite someone with a QR code or a link that effectively becomes an ID - even if it changes for every invitation. Also servers need to coordinate message delivery, some form of ID is required for that.

    The way the messaging queues work and what the servers see is interesting but I’m yet to dig into that.