I am really struggling to replace facebook messenger / whatsapp for a few casual conversations. My friends and I are all wanting to move away. We are not heavy users of this but need it to work. I think the requirements are:
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floss client for android, linux, windows
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persistent history across devices
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reasonable security
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don’t need to self host server
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can send a message to offline user, they get it when they come online
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not tied to or reliant on phone number / cell service
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ETA: end user documentation explaining how to set up and common troubleshooting
tried:
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matrix: the thing with having to keep track of room keys and stuff is too complicated. every time someone uses a new device it is a ton of issues and we could never quite get it ironed out
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signal: tied to phone number, no history across devices
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xmpp: similar to matrix the key situation is confusing, also no cross device history
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ETA: simpleX: a lot of people here are mentioning simpleX. It didn’t come up in previous investigations so will give it a shot.
- ETA 2: It doesn’t seem to have persistent history across devices. Clarification?
I actually didn’t think this would be such a problem but it is breaking us. we don’t need a lot of sophisticated features like voice, video, moderation, 1000s of participants, spam protection etc that seem to be of concern to the projects. just simple text chat.
so if you click documentation on the session website it brings you to this page https://docs.oxen.io/oxen-docs/products-built-on-oxen/session
I am seeing the words “blockchain”, “economics”, “token”, “instant transactions”… And one click to NFT crypto stuff.
I remember hearing that blockchain tech could be used for stuff other than scams but it is used for scams a lot and this app seems to be related to scam-type activity.
Can someone provide any insight?
a. not all blockchain is bad b. I have neither seen, nor heard, of blockchain or cryptocoins on the platform. If blockchain is being used under the covers, it’s not visible to users. I see no ability to do anything with NFTs or cryptocoins in any of the clients.
Session delivers messages more reliably than many platforms; E2E encrypts all messages (unencrypted is not even an option); requires no PII; has a good battery profile on mobile; reliably allows sharing, and has nice QOL features (that my non-tech family members have come to expect) like animated GIF search-and-embed; it supports message deletion and dissapearing messages; it has encrypted voice and video chat.
If there’s any blockchain in the stack, then Session is an excellent example of its usefulness.
It’s all open-source, too, so audit away.
It’s not perfect, of course. There’s no CLI client. Because there’s no PII, there’s no registry, so connecting to people is harder than many platforms, and looking people up, impossible. The desktop client is an Electron app, so it’s typically resource hungry. It doesn’t yet have sent message editing.
Well I will say that I totally didn’t predict crypto would pop up in this thread. Curious.
getsession.org > Technicals > Documentation > Overview
It sounds like what it is saying is that people who host the remote servers are paid in this crypto currency for the service. Cryptocurrency is mainly useful for laundering money and scamming people. I am having a hard time understanding (a) how there is enough demand for this niche chat service that it should play a major role in their little economy, and (b) where the usefulness of this crypto (e.g. value in fiat so you can do anything with it) could possible some in. Other than scams, laundering etc.
After that comes
long blah blah blah about crypto
It’s so… weird… to have all this as the introductory docs. Not a troubleshooting guide or dependency info but all this crazy scam BS.
I see that you are saying this crypto stuff doesn’t intrude on the app. Like you are not getting popups trying to scam you; OK. And you think the app is really good. Can the server/app could be de coupled from all this other stuff? Could it be run independently of this fake economy? That’s what I don’t understand about this “not crypto” blockchain stuff. If it’s not crypto, why is the documentation all about crypto instead of normal user or dev manual?
I appreciate the time to answer the question. But I have to be honest this feels icky. Don’t you get the feeling something sleazy is going on? At any rate when these people get caught or cash out won’t everything vanish?
It’s taken me forever to reply because (a) I feel guilty about short replies to long messages, (b) I had to think about this a bit, and © I almost exclusively access Lemmy on my phone and I hate typing long messages on my phone. Not an excuse, just an explanation. There are no good Lemmy desktop clients, but I’ve finally logged in to my instance’s web interface to respond to this. 3 months later.
So, yeah. I honestly didn’t pay much attention to whatever backstory the software authors were selling; I was looking for a feature set, and Session had it. I got some of my circle using it, and we eventually stopped because message delivery reliability was iffy, and there were enough of some UI issues with (e.g.) attaching photos that everyone drifted back to what we were using before. I’m sure Session will improve, but just for the record, I haven’t been using it because of technical reasons.
I don’t have an issue with cryptocurrency per se. There are issues with current implementations, but the fact that it’s used for laundering money or scamming people is also an argument that can be made for fiat money, but you don’t see people saying we shouldn’t use dollars because a vast amount of them are used to enable the military industrial complex that is killing people around the world. I haven’t read that Bitcoin is being used to fund any of the attempted genocides currently underway – but fiat money has. People have been scamming people using regular money for far longer than cryptocurrency has existed. A lot of people have lost a lot of money trying to get rich in various cryptocurrencies; do you think more people have lost more money in cryptocurrency than people have lost trying to dabble in the stock market? Have more fortunes been ruined by cryptocurrencies than were ruined by the collapse of the “legitimate” currency of Germany during the Weimar Republic? And what, exactly, is a “fake economy?” If people are willing to exchange goods and services for A Thing – whatever that Thing is – it’s a real economy by definition. The argument that because the currency isn’t endorsed or backed by a government means it’s not real seems debatable, at best.
While I think a debate about the relative merits and evils of cryptocurrency is a good thing to have, since the OP topic was messengers, to answer your questions: in the entire time I used Session – and though today it’s still on my phone and receiving messages, although nobody’s sending any – I would not know that the developers behind Session had some grander vision involving cryptocurrency unless it had been brought to my attention here. That they want to improve privacy by using an anonymous method of payment for services – one not based on the collection and sale of metadata, or on a traceable currency (which all electronic fiat transactions are) seems reasonable. I imagine that, eventually, they’ll build something like Lightning into the app, so users can transfer cryptocurrency to other users, or to the operators of their servers. If it ever gets to the point where you must pay to use the service using crypto, then maybe I’d be concerned. It’d be no worse than buying tokens at a video game arcade – a practice that was around for more than a decade without an indignant uprising.
I think it feels sleezy to you because the devs are also interested in integrating cryptocurrency into the Session ecosystem, and you believe cryptocurrency=bad. I think it doesn’t feel icky to me because I’ve been working as a software developer since long before Bitcoin was introduced; and I understand how blockchains work, and know what “proof-of-work” means and what it implies; and I’ve watched the evolution of the internet and the growth of the web, and lived through the eternal September; and I saw how email turned from a communication tool for people in higher ed into a way for scammers (and legitimate businesses) to deliver spam. And I believe that a very many people will try to take advantage of other people and take their money, and they’ll use any possible tool to do so. But I believe that scamming is not fundamental to the nature of cryptocurrencies in the same way that killing people is in the fundamental nature of a gun, any more than buying heroin is fundamental to the nature of a dollar bill.