Do you play PC games?
Yes
Do you care about privacy?
Yes
LOL get fucked
You can install Steam on Linux. In fact I have 2 PCs in my house for my sons. They run Windows games flawlessly. See for compatibility in the ProtonDB.
Yeah I installed Garuda yesterday and games worked great. It’s literally everything else that had me wanting a “Linux for fucking morons” class.
And if that doesn’t work, there’s always
alcoholWineSee the thing is, when you use Windows you don’t need a compatability list.
Just wait until you try to install it on something without secure boot
On Windows it might be compatible but you’ll still face problems. Not to mention Linux has a better compatibility with older games
Edge with hover button to bing is now your default browser again.
Linux gaming is pretty good these days. Basically the only major games you can’t play are the ones running super intrusive anticheats.
Maybe relevant 10 years ago, but not anymore. Hell, most games run better with Proton now, no background telemetry crap.
could just be my luck but out of a few games I tried nothing ran as smooth as windows and also no g sync for me
FNV somehow runs more stable on my Steam Deck than my PC at this point.
I tried running FNV on my home PC through Proton and it was basically a PowerPoint presentation. My Windows partition can run FNV just fine, even with a game-breaking number of mods. I’m sure I’m doing something wrong, as I’ve heard that FNV works well in WINE. I’m on Debian in case anyone wants to
dunk on my shithelp me out.
Moved to Nobara os half a year back and haven’t had much issue with any game so far, not anymore than I did on windows
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Isn’t the whole Macs don’t get viruses thing a myth by this point?
There are a lot more sources for random untrustworthy Windows software than there are for MacOS but that’s on the user the same way keeping your OS up to date is.
Nothing is secure anymore, and it makes sense. The reason there are less apple hacks (anything I’m the ecosystem is susceptible) is by keeping things proprietary and their relative obscurity. There have been hacks on Mac’s, iPhones, but also Linux, android, and of course windows.
I agree but I feel like the obscurity aspect faded out with the I’m a Mac and I’m a PC ads
By relative obscurity, I mean purely market share. By percentages, it’s obscure, by raw numbers it’s still popular with millions of users.
Yeah I mean I’m not talking about ReactOS. It’s hard to measure the amount of malware per market share.
I imagine it’s weighted unevenly dependent on it’s user base and target demographic.
Windows is shit, but the days where you have to do configuration if you don’t use some obscure notebook in one of the most used linux distros is over. I’d say gnome e.g. is pretty close to macos UI wise. There is also Hackintosh if you can’t live without it.
As for why I particularly hate apple:
- Bizarre pricing for comparably low tier Hardware (although not really comparable since apple makes their own ARM silicone)
- Bad repairability, including flimsy collabs to produce some overpriced block of metal just to change an jphone battery lol
- Walled garden / closed ecosystem. Blocking third party apps for users “security”. All this green bubble / blue bubble bullshit.
- productivity and design wise alright machines, but utter trash when it comes to gaming.
There are surely more / other points to make.
Arch Linux Desktop for coding and gaming, MacBook for mobile productivity. Best of both worlds.
I know with 100% certainty that if my MacBook did a thing last week, it will do it tomorrow. No lost files due to updates, no weird crashes, no ads, no candy crush. If I’m out somewhere, that reliability is worth the premium. And, at least on Mac computers, you can unlock the walled garden if you really need to.
There is no use case for windows in my workflow. Might not be true for everyone though.
I had the exact same setup before switching to fedora
To be fair, using Arch is kind of a different thing entirely. If you want to compare something to OSX UX/reliability, Mint or the like would be a more fair comparison. They’re way more stable than rolling release, and even rr doesn’t have that many issues.
I know with 100% certainty that if my MacBook did a thing last week, it will do it tomorrow.
You would be wrong. They disabled gigabit ethernet in 2012/203 iMacs/Minis with an OS update, 100mbps only after that. They broke PTP for Android phones with an OS update.
I have a late 2012 mini on Catalina still. I’m like 99% sure it still runs gigabit. Let me check the switch port it’s on.
Any report?
Sorry. yeah was on my way home super late and fell asleep. Its definately 1Gb.
Arp Lookup
Mac Address lookup on switch
Switch Port is def 1gb. Port right under it is 100 Mb as an example.
Genuinely happy for you to have escaped this issue. I had mine on wifi when the OS update that killed it rolled out, because I couldn’t run a cable to that part of my house, so I didn’t notice until a couple of years after the fact. Even booting Linux or Windows it was still stuck at 100Mbps. There used to be a lot more threads on the Apple forums and they inevitably ended in people being content to just buying external thunderbolt adapters to get the speed back.
Thank you again for all your replies and suggestions. After trying a thunderbolt gigabit ethernet adapter, I have full 1000Mbps speeds again. I can only assume there was some kind of firmware mess-up with the OS update. At least that won’t affect 3rd party hardware.
I can’t be sure if any of the suggestions helped the situation, but I learned a few things, and at least I don’t have to worry with it now. Thanks again. Cheers!Maybe you should read your own sources before making unsubstantiated claims. If it had been intentional, using an adapter would not have solved the problem.
Dude, they disabled a capability of the hardware it shipped with, with a firmware update in the OD update. I have one of the affected Minis. I bought a computer that shipped with gigabit Ethernet and they removed that feature. I don’t care if I could buy an external adapter. Would you think it was ok of Nvidia retroactively capped you 120fps GPU at 12fps because you can just buy another GPU?
I have a 2012 Mac Mini. It runs gigabit just fine. Might be a firmware bug that they never patched?
Edit: And no, I would not take that from Nvidia. But, I don’t think this is intentional, or else my mini would also be affected.
I’m genuinely glad for you and the other poster here who got by unscathed. Maybe we have slightly different chipsets. Mine is bcm57766/b57nd60a.
That’s only iOS, and I’ve heard that EU’s trying to put an end to that. Third party apps works fine with macOS; never once have I even touched the app store, only Homebrew. I do agree that the lack of control and freedom you have is egregious, especially for such an expensive device, there really should be an toggle to turn all of that restriction off for those who knows what they’re doing. I’m also pessimistic about the future of macOS given the absolute bullshit Apple’s been pulling with iOS. I can only hope Asahi Linux gets feature parity with macOS by the time they do the same with macOS, else I’ll have to sell my M1 MacBook and get something else, and that’s a shame because despite less-than-ideal OS, the hardware is amazing.
They don’t contribute code back to the community and make billions in profit to the detriment of furthering the human species with their concentration of wealth and minimal innovation (since Jobs died).
That’s not true. Some examples: WebKit LLVM clang Anything here: https://github.com/Developer-Ecosystem-Engineering
You mean like their recent Wine patches, which they trough over the fence instand of working with the community? WebKit was forked AFAIK for open source projects etc. Perhaps Apple conforms to the letter of the law, but they for sure don’t play nice to the spirit of OpenSource. Finally: Given what they borrowed from the *BSDs, I don’t see Apple being a contributor to the *BSDs in any way.
It’s mainly the terrible anti-consumer decisions of Apple that everyone dunks on, such as lack of repairability, lack of consumer choice, charging a fortune to change a single $1 chip, and being unable to run programs downloaded from anywhere but the app store.
being unable to run programs downloaded from anywhere but the app store.
I agree with everything else you said but this is just flat out incorrect.
I just thought since that’s how the iPhone works it would apply to MacOS as well, sorry.
You can’t upgrade ram or a hard drive. If you sell me a computer, charge $100 per 4 gigs of base speed ram, even more for storage, than have the audacity to tell me I can’t upgrade it myself, you can fuck right off.
Every time I offer similar views the responses I get are somewhere along the lines of
But you can run Linux on windows! You can install most of the same tools on windows Just run everything in docker anyway
I’ve been coding most of my life. Usually people don’t understand just how sucky the tool chains are on windows when you step into certain dev work.
If I ever have to setup multiple python virtual envs again I’ll fucking just quit. Pipenv. Virtualenv. Poetry. Every fucking one on windows has been riddled with bugs
Several reasons:
- Almost all of their products target the high end market (and even then, they are known to make stupid decisions to cut off high end use cases).
- OSX tends to be opinionated on certain settings and it is hard (or impossible) to change them.
- Many of the built in software only work if you exclusively use Apple products.
- Apple simps.
On point 4, I hear way more from Apple haters than I do from Apple simps
Really? Back on Reddit, every time I said something about Apple, I get at least 5 comments saying how “that isn’t a problem”, “lol you have no idea” and things like that.
Especially the head. phone. jacks. Oh my, the mental gymnastics were unforgettable.
Even in you’re own example, it sounds like you’re the one going out of your way to complain about it
All you’re complaining about is that people disagreed with you when you removeded about Apple lol
I don’t really care about Apple itself, but rather how they can screw over everyone with shitty practices and people will still defend them.
Headphone jacks are just a very glaring example of that ;)
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Thanks for proving my point.
You are literally suggesting how you have fixed (or rather, worked around) the issue… by suggesting another much more expensive solution. Pretty much just like the other comments I mentioned before, except that they were suggesting wireless headphones, or buying dongles, or any of that jazz.
I just want to charge my phone while I’m wearing my headphones, without having to buy any external dongles or gasp external DACs.
Apple set a terrible precedent for other phone manufacturers by removing the headphone jacks, they showed how they can screw over customers and people will still sing praises for them, it’s baffling because it’s a blatant attempt by Apple to promote their own wireless headphones!
Although it’s been better now in the Android world, but there was once when those companies touted “lack of 3.5mm” as a feature.
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My dude, if you find you need to “babysit” Fedora or Ubuntu, I’m kind of doubting your tech literacy - i.e the basic level of tech literacy you need to operate macOS or Windows with.
And also, just because something is UNIX doesn’t make it good. Shout outs to HPUX.
Also, Apple is tracking you on macOS and iOS, similarly to Google and Microsoft. They call it telemetry, but are you SURE they don’t collect identifying information and canvas you?
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I wish macOS was a well managed Unix system.
Because they’re such a heavily walled garden.
It’s great for my parents who know nothing about technology and computers. They just need to go online and check emails and social media.
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Sorry I want a well-managed UNIX system with a nice GUI while not coding?
Linux with KDE.
I don’t care what anyone says. On a user level MacOS is by far the best ready to go experience. I love using Linux Mint and I wish I would use it full time to be free of corporate OS’s. But that’s not the case and Mac is well ahead in my eyes.
Just to be clear, because the following could be misunderstood when posted alone: I’m not looking for an argument, use whatever you prefer. I’m just curious.
What use cases do you have that aren’t available (or take lots of configuration) on Mint?
Thanks for asking. Unfortunately I’m stuck using certain Adobe apps. There are Linux alternatives but I work with clients and external parties so working files need to be shared. So can’t risk compatibility or even drive format issues.
Plus hardware wise apple really hit it out of the park with apple silicon. I’d love to see the desktop gpu race move towards efficient even a little bit to tempt me.
Gotta give credit where credit’s due.
KDE plasma
Sorry I want a well-managed UNIX system with a nice GUI
Does OSX still have that bug where if you merge two folders of the same name it deletes everything in one of them?
I’m with you, it’s just Cool to hate on Apple or whatever.
I am literally forced to use Apple at work. I can life with an iPhone, because I use it just for its intended, dumped down usage and I overcame the annoyance about Apples fascism (alternative web engine). If you are not able to automate 100% of your setup on a proper UNIX machine, please do the programming community a favor and switch your line of work. Apple is such a shit show: no keyboard driven workflow w/o extensive customization, how the fuck can I automate 100% of the the setup/customization, why the fuck do I have to upgrade every fucking single program interactively with a click, why are the package managers homebrew and macports as shitshow like Linux 25 years ago, why is macOS so bloated and fucking slow on a machine, why is the development experience for mac worse than Visual Studio 6 (!), Finder is such a sad joke compared to file managers on every other OS or DE, why can I not easily enable transparent file compression when I am a grown up user etc etc etc. Seriously, macOS is nice for consumers with too much money. The literally only thing macOS does which I envy is the tag system which works. Don’t get me wrong, Linux is also a shit show, but compared to macOS it is like the best thing ever.
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Then you are far above the threshold, because Ubuntu desktop and Fedora desktop are easy and widely supported by hardware nowadays. No tinkering necessary.
macOS is fine, for now, but with the direction Apple is going right now with all the spyware they’re putting on iOS, I’d rather start using something else than get caught off guard when they start doing the same with macOS. I still have a MacBook, but I’ve long since switched to using Linux as my main system, so when the day comes and Apple decides to install spyware on macOS, I can ditch it in a heartbeat without shedding a single tear. Also, I’m not a big fan of the lack of options and customisability on macOS. I get that it’s meant to help non-tech-savvy people so that they don’t break their system, but at least make a toggle that’s lets you turn all of that off for those who knows what they’re doing.
Lastly, Linux distros like Fedora or Mint is very easy to use, and at least in my opinion, entirely negates the argument that “Linux is hard”. It’s only as difficult as you want it to be. The only major roadblock is support for common proprietary apps, and while I don’t usually use them, I’ve heard that they’ve become far better recently. As a cherry on top, it’s lighter and, best of all, has no spyware.
@railsdev @idk837384 It’s the price, right? People shit on it for its price. You didn’t mention price once! Lol
Nah, $999 for a monitor stand is completely reasonable
Mac wheels
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One doesn’t “get privacy”, privacy can’t be bolted on. One starts with full privacy and then begins losing it to bad decisions, like choosing an inauditable OS that phones home and everything.
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If you run MacOS, I don’t have to.
And yeah, sound like at least one of us doesn’t get privacy.
From my experience with people that are very pro Android vs the pro iOS crowd, it’s just that they’re trying to justify their own choice by uplifting the OS they chose and sometimes tend to focus only on the negatives of the other OS. The same can be said for the various desktop OS crowds.
I’ve used both Android and iOS, as well as Windows and MacOS (and intend to try Linux at some point) over the years and I never thought one was generally better than the other. All these OSs have different target users and that’s ok. Just because you’re not the target user for OS A, doesn’t mean that OS B is objectively the best OS for everyone. It’s just the best OS for you. And why people feel the need to bash other people’s choices or even make fun of them for it is beyond me.
They’re playing into the advertisers hands. Simple as that
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Because they’re such a heavily walled garden.
It’s great for my parents who know nothing about technology and computers. They just need to go online and check emails and social media.
You’ve forgotten an important point: the price gap between apple and windows machines has closed significantly. A similarly-performing windows machine is now a similar price, if not more expensive, than the equivalent mac.
Spyware
Windows isn’t afraid of tech, but MacOS is? Give me a break, the Unix style terminal is the reason for using MacOS professionally.
Honestly, most windows users I know at least know where their files are stored and stuff like that. Average Mac users don’t know if something is synced with the cloud or not and can’t unpack a rar archive without calling support because they are deliberately kept dumb by that restrictive, overly oppinionated, lock-in OS and unrepairable, un-upgradable hardware ecosystem. I’m using linux as daily driver on laptop and desktop for almost a decade now and I hate windows with a passion, but mac manages to be even worse. Although windows is also getting worse with every version since win7, so they might be on par soon…
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The rar example was pretty random because I encountered that once. Also, I have t admit that I also know windows users who haven’t got the tiniest clue what they are doing. I just feel like it’s even worse on mac because the OS is more oppinionated and tends to hide even more complexity from its users without actually solving it. Windows also has got some horrendous default settings btw., e.g. hiding file extensions in explorer and searching through documents content when using the explorer search bar.
Depends on the person. Most of the people I know who use MacOS, use it as a glorified Facebook machine. Outside of perhaps Word, they only use the web browser.
In my circles it’s used exclusively for software engineering. Mostly by people who like Linux but don’t wanna deal with any instability brought by customizing your install.
What kinds of customization create instability on Linux but are still possible on Mac?
Computers are a tool and people use it for the needs that benefit them.
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Yeah this used to be the case up until the early 2000s. Then Microsoft started making Windows much less technical (e.g. instead of showing
Error: HRESULT 0x80070002it just showedSorry, something went wrong :(). Conversely, Apple started exposing more tooling for MacOS, e.g. tracing, terminal, etc. instead of just showing<bomb picture>if something went wrong.To quote a designer friend of mine ‘Apple is the king of average’. :-P Most people I see using apple don’t even understand how shitty the UI is if your workflow is keyboard driven (snap windows w/o 3rd party programs for example.)
I’m not sure if my experience is any kind interesting or not, but here goes. This is coming from the perspective of a software engineer.
After using Windows for a few years, I switched to macOS for several years before needing to use some Windows-only software and switching back.
I always hated using iPadOS, and for a long time, I assumed this was primarily due to the lack of windowed applications (as well as the lack of software that was truly competitive with Windows/macOS offerings, at least at the time).
On the other hand, my experience with macOS is just the opposite. As soon as the feature was introduced, I started using applications exclusively in fullscreen whenever possible. This is partially the fault of macOS’s vanilla window system being unhelpful in several regards, but that doesn’t explain why I now miss it on Windows.
Yes, I know Windows now implements comparable multitouch gestures, but in my experience, it is terrible to use. The scroll speed is far too fast and cannot be changed independently, AFAIK. And maximized applications still have to choose between a persistent window border and a borderless mode that comes with its own pitfalls. I really don’t like it, but I still use alt+tab 99% of the time, just like I did on XP and 7.
I think the root of the problem is that you can only physically look at one thing at a time, but fullscreen applications work best in multitasking when the time spent switching windows (including the time spent consciously thinking about it) is minimized. iPadOS sometimes takes longer and the gesture is uncomfortable to perform on a tablet. Windows gets it wrong in how much you have to keep an eye on it. macOS, in my opinion, gets it just right.
bro why is kali in the “you have no life” section ?? Everyone knows ethical hackers get all the girls
Please, please, PLEASE do not use Kali as a daily driver… The maintainers and the organization and every hacking role-model and educator on the internet says to not use it as a daily driver. You want Debian Testing if you’re that worried about having debian-like features but getting a rolling release
I have run into people who use kali as a daily driver. They mentioned it trying to seem cool but it made me think wow this guys an idiot.
Yeah but at least I’m ready to nmap my home network at a moment’s notice
well, nmap can be installed in any distro
I went to school in cybersecurity (ended up being a run of the mill web dev) and the people who ran Kali knew the least. I blame Mr Robot
I use Arch btw
Having a life is overated. Praise be the glory of Arch Linux.
I feel like I missed my opportunity to brag about using Arch. I did an install a while back and the Arch wiki spoonfed everything to me. Once I got KDE installed, I honestly didn’t feel much a difference between my Arch install and, say, EndeavorOS. That said, I haven’t done any major upgrades yet, so…
Guess I don’t have a life.
Use btw I Arch.
There’s a Lemmy instance where you don’t have to say that.
i use linux BECAUSE i fear technology…
maybe more accurately it should be ‘understand’ technology, but then why would windows be there ?
You fear the people that really own the technology, not the technology itself.
thats where your wrong. i fear both
thats where your wrong. i fear both
I use Windows because i need to use certain Software
I use windows because I like things that just work.
*for about 2 years until the next reformat lol
The real joke is in the comments.
I haven’t had issues running a few things I needed within a VM. However, those tasks aren’t demanding.
Looking at you “iCloud for Windows”.
when I get a larger hard drive I will dualboot. Linux is MUCH easier for development stuff. I am using windows right now so I can continue to use some software (like Affinity Photo)
such as? just use WINE
My main Problem is with my music production Software and Hardware, which cant be easily installed with wine. Other than that i have affinity suit which works with wine, but not without Problems. Lastly i use davinci resolve, which claims to Support linux natively but barely works.
Bro just write your own ALSA drivers, it’s not needlessly arcane or complex at all.
Similar problem here, but I use debian for everything that’s not audio/video related.
Things that straight up ban the use of wine exist, y’know
Roblox recently
Adobe
that has wine gold, try dual booting and running it on wine staging
So I have some old music projects that are basically stuck on Windows. Even if I moved over all the files and ran the plugins through WINE, I would have to go through the entire project and fill in the blanks with the WINE-bridged plugins and redo all the automation I have. Running the program through WINE isn’t really an option because my projects were just below the performance limit on native Windows. I know some programs run on WINE better than Windows, but I need real-time audio with a specific audio interface that doesn’t support Linux. I could use WINEASIO, but I would still be losing a lot of performance compared to native Windows, where again I am regularly reaching the performance limit of my setup.
Also, I’m holding off for a few months on installing Debian onto my Windows work laptop because all my technical programs are ready on Windows immediately. I’m waiting until I get more storage and until I know if the programs I need for my future job are compatible with WINE.
I love WINE as much as the next Linux user, but it can’t solve everything. I acknowledge that it is Windows rather than WINE or Linux that is making things difficult for us. Unfortunately, I need to have a native Windows partition for the foreseeable future, although I’m doing almost everything else on Debian on my home PC.
if yiu wver do swap to linux, check out yabridge for bridging plugins
I’m aware of Yabridge. The problem with Yabridge (or any other plugin bridges, like Carla) is that any plugin used with it will be treated by the DAW as an instance of Yabridge rather than an instance of whatever plugin it is. This changes what parameters the DAW looks for.
If I remember correctly, the DAW is aware of parameter names in the VST3 standard. Most of my existing plugins are VST3 (compiled for Windows). In a typical situation, this is exposed to the DAW by the plugin when it is instantiated, and the automation and knob settings of those parameters are written to the project file under those names. However, when the project is moved over to Linux (or anywhere else other than Windows with all the same plugins), the DAW will scan the list of plugins that it is aware of, not including the Windows ones because it doesn’t know how to parse them. The DAW will simply give me a couple hundred “plugin not found” warnings. If I remember correctly, my DAW gives me the option to find and link these plugins by hand.
So I could theoretically go through the whole project and remap all the plugin automation by hand, but there wouldn’t be any technical benefit. It’s just simpler to keep a Windows partition.
Also, I have switched to Linux (Debian Bookworm w/ KDE) on my home PC for everything else. I’m loving it so far, especially KDE Plasma and KDEConnect. I don’t know how I lived without it. I might end up producing new tracks on Debian, but I have to install more software before I make that commitment. Really, it needs to “feel right”, which is admittedly not well-defined.
WINE doesn’t work for everything. I’ve heard Adobe products are hit and miss and I have yet to get Office to work.
Heavily modded skyrim hates wine.
I’m posting from an actual abacus.
What an odd take.
Every dev I know must be terrified of technology as they all use apple laptops. I don’t love apple but they make a pretty sweet *nix laptop for dev work.
My shop is about half and half, and I wouldn’t say that the devs with macs are afraid of technology, but I would say they don’t look real comfortable using a command prompt…
lol it’s the opposite for me. many people use terminal all day every day and run Linux VMs if necessary.
why the heck is gentoo isn’t in no life section but Kali is???
Because rl gentoo penguins rule? 🤷
epic
Exactly. Kali is just Debian
Has Gentoo stopped being the distro of choice for people with too much time on their hands?
Compiling the browser or figuring out how to not trigger qtwebengine-dependency. No time to post anything.
I thought that was Arch, but it seems like NixOS is stealing all their users
It’s more about gaming compatibility for me.
I know Linux had been making great progress. But not every game runs well on non mainstream OS’s.
Linux is to main stream -> OpenBSD
NetBSD is love, NetBSD is life.
What benefits do you have using Unix over Linux?
I don’t think OpenBSD is Unix, both unix like. For a usecase, I don’t know if there even is a scenario where you would want OpenBSD as a desktop user, other than preference. I guess it would feel a bit like gentoo.
What benefit would it have as a server or anything else compared to Linux? I’m not in the biz so I really don’t know.
Me neither
I don’t know much about it lately, but aren’t Fedora and Ubuntu considered bad nowadays? Mint imo was absolutely great every time I used it except for proprietary drivers needing extra reboots(might be different now)
AFAIK, Fedora is considered stable and is a great choice.
Fedora just works, it made me stop Distro hopping. I don’t want to use something else, but when the day comes on that Red Hat starts making questionable choices, I’ll go back to Debian.
but when the day comes on that Red Hat starts making questionable choices,
Uh that day came and went when they changed CentOS from a downstream source rebuild of RHEL to an upstream dev branch that stabilizes into RHEL. They’ve now gone off the rails with closing public access to the sources and having RHEL T&C require customers to either relinquish they’re GPL right to redistribute the sources or have their support contract terminated.
Yeah, without Fedora for me it’s either Debian or Arch. Nothing inbetween. And I do like the inbetween, that is what Fedora is.
I’ve been a user for years and I would agree with that. The only issue I’ve seen people have recently are with Red Hat and their recent source code policy change
I think Ubuntu has turned to garbage with whatever canonical is doing but I do think Linux Mint is pretty great
I’m having a ton of fun with Mint. I’m finding it tight, full of relevant software, and quite configurable.
I have no control over my Ubuntu’s updates just like with windows. I’d have to ditch snap if i understand properly, which would effectively deUbuntu my Ubuntu. They have a fairly heavily proprietary focus which is also bad.
Come join the Mint gang
I need to leave the ADHD gang first I think lol.
I don’t really know if they’re bad, since I haven’t touched either in years, but they’re both definitely easy distros to get into for beginners who dont want to spend hours configuring their system, thus them being in the yes part of having a life.
I don’t know why someone would call them bad. Especially if you’re trying to install them on non-mainstream hardware. There’s just more support for them.
My own journey to Linux started with FreeBSD. Want to talk about hard to find drivers? Now I have two laptops running Ubuntu and Mint, with Ubuntu running as a VM on Win10.
